Tricky Denoblements
Posted by Apostate on 10/28/19
Q:What would happen if you have two non head of household members that are married and one is denobled? What happens to the spouse? Is the marriage contract dissolved? Is the spouse denobled too? Do they exist in a weird limbo?
Also, is denoblement viewed as a temporary thing where the denobled are simply expected to redeem themselves, or is it seen as typically pretty permanant thing? How common is it to be re-ennobled after something like that? Are there any lingering stigmas (like propriety mods)? Speaking of those! Are there/will there be propriety mods for the denobled, or should we expect to rather see a propriety mod that reflects the reason why they were denobled?
A:Overwhelmingly, noble marriages are to create a bond between two houses as a commitment for a formal treaty, with the children from the marriage seen as a guarantee of future stability between the two houses and a living embodiment of the alliance. If a spouse is disowned, it matters quite a bit whether they already have children. If they do not have children yet, then traditionally it's annuled, with much of the blame being placed upon the new commoner who was responsible for getting themselves disowned. This varies quite a bit on case by case, as it's effectively the treaty holding domain tearing up a treaty by saying they couldn't uphold their end of the bargain due to their offspring being incapable of conducting themselves as a noble. That doesn't look great, but the other house typically doesn't want to make matters worse by blaming their former ally, and allows the Faith to annul the marriage and move on.
If the couple does have children, then the children are still largely seen as a guarantee on the stability, and the common practice would depend on whether the denobled spouse is in the process of trying to reearn their status from their family or if it is irrevocable. If the denobled spouse is seen as being able to re-earn their family's good graces, then the marriage would go through a trial separation essentially as they do so, but they'd remain married, and the still nobled spouse would go through the humiliation of being married to a someone who got themselves thrown out of their family and is now a commoner. Typically the separation is pretty firm, and they would not associate with one another except to help them regain their family's approval and be made noble again. Otherwise, if it looks irrevocable, then the Faith grants a divorce, the alliance stays, and the nonoffending spouse that married in stays in the family. Mind you, denobling a noble that married into a house isn't really how things are done. They would be divorced for cause first, and then it would be their birth family that decides what to do with them, as they have nobility by virtue of their birth family, not the marriage.
As for love matches, well, if someone married for love, why would they stay in a noble house? Of course they'd follow their one true love into a commoner life with them, as they already said how their love was more important than duty to family. Why, it would look utterly selfish to stay a noble under those circumstances, so they wouldn't, would they?. (Most get divorced and stay noble, and the peerage tends to not hold back in their opinions on someone that was already bucking tradition by seeking a love match).
Also, is denoblement viewed as a temporary thing where the denobled are simply expected to redeem themselves, or is it seen as typically pretty permanant thing? How common is it to be re-ennobled after something like that? Are there any lingering stigmas (like propriety mods)? Speaking of those! Are there/will there be propriety mods for the denobled, or should we expect to rather see a propriety mod that reflects the reason why they were denobled?
A:Overwhelmingly, noble marriages are to create a bond between two houses as a commitment for a formal treaty, with the children from the marriage seen as a guarantee of future stability between the two houses and a living embodiment of the alliance. If a spouse is disowned, it matters quite a bit whether they already have children. If they do not have children yet, then traditionally it's annuled, with much of the blame being placed upon the new commoner who was responsible for getting themselves disowned. This varies quite a bit on case by case, as it's effectively the treaty holding domain tearing up a treaty by saying they couldn't uphold their end of the bargain due to their offspring being incapable of conducting themselves as a noble. That doesn't look great, but the other house typically doesn't want to make matters worse by blaming their former ally, and allows the Faith to annul the marriage and move on.
If the couple does have children, then the children are still largely seen as a guarantee on the stability, and the common practice would depend on whether the denobled spouse is in the process of trying to reearn their status from their family or if it is irrevocable. If the denobled spouse is seen as being able to re-earn their family's good graces, then the marriage would go through a trial separation essentially as they do so, but they'd remain married, and the still nobled spouse would go through the humiliation of being married to a someone who got themselves thrown out of their family and is now a commoner. Typically the separation is pretty firm, and they would not associate with one another except to help them regain their family's approval and be made noble again. Otherwise, if it looks irrevocable, then the Faith grants a divorce, the alliance stays, and the nonoffending spouse that married in stays in the family. Mind you, denobling a noble that married into a house isn't really how things are done. They would be divorced for cause first, and then it would be their birth family that decides what to do with them, as they have nobility by virtue of their birth family, not the marriage.
As for love matches, well, if someone married for love, why would they stay in a noble house? Of course they'd follow their one true love into a commoner life with them, as they already said how their love was more important than duty to family. Why, it would look utterly selfish to stay a noble under those circumstances, so they wouldn't, would they?. (Most get divorced and stay noble, and the peerage tends to not hold back in their opinions on someone that was already bucking tradition by seeking a love match).