Q-bert an Albino Possum arrives, following Shyanne.

The afternoon sky is hot and bright, but fortunately the Atrium has plenty of shade. Tents have been set up over the majority of the benches to keep those who sit in them out of the sun's wrath until evening comes and cools things down, and chairs have been set in the shade of a big pear tree.

The sun doesn't seem to bother Princess Katarina, though. The young Eurusi woman is still leaning a bit on a cane, but she's set up a bit of an ad hoc lectern in between the benches and the tree. "Greetings, greetings," she trills as people filter in. "Welcome to a new season in Arx -- and a new season of discussions in the Salon. I hope that you are all well~."

"Tonight," Katarina continues, "we shall discuss haze. I have heard many perspectives on it during my time in Arvum. I have known those who consider it virtually ruinous to the health of the mind... and those who wear by its ability to help medicate and heal that same mind. I am sure that everyone here has their own viewpoints, their own experiences, and I invite them to be shared tonight: respectfully, of course." Katarina's veil covers her lips, but somehow it's obvious that she's smiling. "I would like to start with a question: the law prohibits the smuggling of haze, but not the use of it. So, while it is LEGAL... is it wrong to use haze?"

3 Thrax Guards, an ostentatious curator named Sivas, 1 Thrax Elite Guards, a reserved assistant named Stojan arrive, following Denica.

Vincenzo had filtered in before the start of the evening and he had found himself on a bench not that far away from where Katarina stands at that ad hoc lectern. There's a small glass in one of his hands, a clear beverage within and he listens to what's posed, there's just the hint of a chuckle in the back of his throat, along with a shake of his head, "I suppose it would depend on what definition of wrong each of us consider it from. From a legality standpoint, is it wrong? No, not at all." A curl of his lips to a smile and a tap of a fingertip against the side of the glass, "From a moral standpoint, in my opinion, it most certainly is wrong. The supposed benefits of haze do not outweigh the risks that accompany it."

For his part? Hadrian isn't smoking haze. Instead he's seated in his finery beneath the pear tree, leaned up with his narrow frame resting against the trunk of that tree. He isn't smoking, but he's definitely among the smokers. He turns his attention toward the discussion moderator in the form of Princess Katarina Valardin. The question posed results in only a moment of consideration from the Duke(-Consort) of House Mazetti before he raises a hand up, likely signaling his readiness to speak judging by the fact that he begins speaking shortly after the hand goes up, "I believe there is an exact minimum number of answers to that question and that number is three. The smoker would say 'no, it's not wrong', while the one opposed to it would say 'yes, it is wrong'. The Lycene would likely say 'it's only wrong if you get caught'," he answers with a devilish little smile.

Denica slips in a little late, though it's hard to go unnoticed, as she brings with her a contingent of guards and assistants. Either way, the young woman tries to find a spot somewhere optimal for observation, so not to disrupt the evolving conversation. An inquiring mind, her curiosity is written all over the features. It seems she is keen to hear the different view points presented at the discussion, or maybe it's just the art of discussion, itself. Hands rest idly in front of her, and despite the efforts it took to dress up and presentable, her fingertips are ink stained, and different colour paint flecks her hands. Hearing comments already come, her thick brows lift, though the young woman remains silent. There is subtle amusement in her smile, eyes sparkling like she is here for the entertainment of a good debate. Her gaze flickers over towards Hadrian, and his comment warrants a smirk from the young woman.

Shyanne listens to the topic, "is this the same drug that is found in the Maidens Blush?" she asks curiously

Katarina gives Hadrian the most 'oh, you~' possible look, and lifts an eyebrow toward Shyanne: "I truthfully don't know," the Princess replies. "Would you elaborate? Likewise, Messere Villente: what risks do you speak of? Let us all make sure we hold the same concepts in our minds."

"Then you have the fourth answer that it does not matter, as people are free to make their own choices, and as long as they are not bothering others who cares?" comes Jaenelle's offerings as she sit away from the smoker's section. She offers a delicate shrug of her shoulders as clearly this is a non answer if anything. A dip of her head is offered to Hadrian at his answer, "well said, my favorite Lycene."

Shyanne looks to Katarina "all I know is the acholic drink known as Maiden's blush makes one most agreeable." she flushes a little "a bit more sensual?" she asks with a roll of her shoulders a little. "Is this being added to any wines that you know of?" she asks "what are the effects."

Vincenzo is giving a chuckle at Hadrain's answer, only for a laugh to follow at Jaenelle's, "Her Grace makes a most valid point. There's no law against the drug and therefore, it's really no different then .." He hoists his glass, "Enjoying a nice drink. Which I'm certain there are those who would frown upon that, as well." He glances to Shyanne and then Denica before looking back to Katarina, "You touched on some, Your Highness, with reports of it being ruinous to the mind. There's also reported degrees of effects, dependent on who is partaking of it. But, the last time I had a conversation on this topic, before my departure from Arx, there had been no medical research done either in favor or against it. I suppose that has no changed and I'm certain that for every negative presented, a counter positive could be presented."

The smile begins to fade, though the voice of Jaenelle earns Hadrian's attention as his smile grows yet further. He nods in agreement with her, but by the end his focus returns to the discussion-at-large, "I would fall firmly into the category of: do what you want, so long as it's not imposing on others," he agrees with another dip of his chin, nodding along with his words. He glances up the trunk of the pear tree, as though visually seeking out some bit of fruit to reach up and pluck down. Not immediately finding any - or at the very least none that he felt the urge to seek out - the Duke's focus turns to those gathered within the atrium once again as he continues, "It has been two years - to the day - that I gave up haze. I decided to sacrifice my usage of it as a measure of personal growth. For starters, I could find something even more potent if I wanted to and visit all manner of different places; swimming among the stars? Amaaaazzzziiinnnng," he sing-songs the word out, even if he's likely speaking metaphorically, "but the biggest reason for me to give up haze on this date, two years ago? Was because I realized that I didn't need it. It needed me, but I didn't need it. Plus, well, I decided to quit literally within a matter of seconds and challenged myself to see if I could. I haven't smoked haze since. Is it wrong? I don't think so. Is it a personal choice? I do think so. Does it really matter? We're facing a war and potential invasion; I don't think whether someone partakes in herbal remedies really matters, does it?"

Denica offers a smile of familiarity to Jaenelle, before she decides to take her place under the pear tree. The young woman indicating where she sits on the matter, by sitting on the matter. It takes a moment, for her to adjust her skirts, as she settles in, easily. "Personally, I think so long as people are aware of the risks, if there are risks, they are theirs to take. It is different if they are mislead, provided inaccurate information, or the like. There is plenty we do that is risky, but we do it, because we want to, or like to, or have to...," Denica shrugs a little. "There are so many factors when it comes to indulging and one's health, what else the person is doing, how often, every situation is different," she shrugs a bit. "That said, if we remove people's ability to assess risk and decide for themselves, there are a lot more long-term adverse effects on society, than just toking up a bit." The princess shrugs, she's offered her opinion, then she goes silent, curious to hear what others have to say.

"A fair point, Messere Villente," Katarina says to Vincenzo. "I had hoped that one more medically astute than myself -- though that is, frankly, anyone -- might attend to offer such a perspective, but that is on me for /hoping/ rather than /inviting/." Katarina smiles under the veil again. "As to your question, Lady Shyanne, it is an... herb? I think? It is smoked, in any event, and from what I am told, it relaxes the body and the mind in a way different than drink. I have not partaken, myself, but that is mostly because I know fully well that I am a complete lightweight when it comes to even wine~." Katarina nods to Jaenelle and Denica, and her eyes settle on Hadrian for a long moment. "If we are to go by what truly matters along those standards, my friend, this place would be nothing but people loudly disagreeing about naval tactics, morning, noon, and night~." It's a playful comment, not an actual scold.

Vincenzo is giving a nod in the direction of Hadrian and Denica, "The other aspect to consider is while the use of haze is not a crime, smuggling it in is." A glance to Katarina and he's giving a little nod of his head, only to then continue with, "So by virtue of use, it could be construed that one is in support of the criminal aspect that makes the supply available to those within the city." His glass is brought to his lips, a small sip taken before he's lowering it back down.

Shyanne says in Isles shav, "Smuggling, but what about declaring? I mean if you dont hide it, is it still a crime?""

Shyanne says something and then she realises she spoke in her native tongue, she chuckles a bit, "what about Declaring, if you dont hide it, is it still a crime?

"What then if there isn't smuggling taking place?" Hadrian asks back at Vincenzo as an eyebrow dances upward and the Duke's head tilts aside, "Speaking from only hypotheticals, of course. If it as not smuggled and every user grew their own supply? Would it still be something worthy of being frowned upon?" Hadrian's hand rises up and his rubs a hand over his mouth, as though he were subconsciously putting something up to his lips. His hand falls away easily enough and comes to rest upon an upturned knee, "And without the intent to blaspheme, I must ask this: would the use of haze be considered an oblation to Petrichor? Much like we celebrate Magnata with new alcohols, what of haze and Petrichor?"

To Denica, Hadrian's attention turns and he offers a faint shake of his head, "I couldn't say one way or another. I had Maiden's Blush once when someone provided it to me in their effort to seduce me. It didn't really do anything like I've experienced in the past with haze."

12 House Velenosa Guards, Ibasia, the Velenosa Lady-in-Waiting, Ellani, the palm sized spider, Sir Thad Quackington leave, following Jaenelle.

"If you declare it, well... I'm not sure trying to import it openly will be treated any differently than smuggling it," Katarina says to Shyanne, with a bounce of her eyebrows. "Though Duke Hadrian raises a point about growing it... and about Petrichor. I would send a letter to the Archlector and ask, but..." Katarina draws in a breath that makes her veil flatten against her face. "...yes, well."

The young princess rolls her shoulders then then she shrugs, "well in that case it's smuggling that's the crime, not the product itself. Just targeting the items that are being smuggled, doesn't really address the problem, they will just continue to smuggle it, and more so, because if it's banned, there will be more of a market for it. Separate things, target smuggling for what it is, otherwise you are implementing policies that are not targeting the actual problem, and just gloss over them." The princess shrugs again, seeming to enjoy such a discourse.

Vincenzo is giving a shake of his head in the direction of Shyanne, "One can not declare it. Coming into the City with it in your possession is considered smuggling." A glance over in the direction of Hadrain and he's offering a slight incline of his head, "And there we drill down even further on the matter. If one can grow it locally, then according to the law, it's not smuggled. At least, that's how I think it would work. I am far from a lawyer, though." A curl of his lips to a smile and his gaze flits over in the direction of Denica, "I do think you're quite right in that thinking, Your Highness."

Hadrian's attention soon drifts to Denica much like Vincenzo's has to the Princess. He nods along for a moment before he speaks up in answer, "I agree with that. Fighting a single symptom doesn't overcome the entire illness; if one exists". He considers the topic for a moment, his gaze drifting from Denica and around to the gathering as a whole before ultimately coming full metaphorical circle to rest on Denica once again, "Do you know why the smuggling of it is illegal, but not the growing of it and personal use? At least by our uneducated interpretation of the law. Why prohibit its transport, but not its growth or use?". The question seems to be a genuine one judging by the fact that the Duke falls silent in order to let Denica or, after his attention begins to drift around, anyone with an answer speak without interruption.

Shyanne nods her head to Hadrians words and she smiles a little before she pauses a bit, and listens to the others speaking. "growing it could be interesting if one could supply the same kind of growing specifications." she says quietly before she nods her head and she smiles to Denicas words.

Hadrian's question makes Katarina's brows lift. She has no answer, herself, and like the Duke, she fans her gaze around the room to see if anyone else does. "It seems I have been /most/ lax in inviting experts -- the next discussion, I will have to do better..."

Denica considers the question but she shakes her head, "I don't know the specifics of it , no. One would need to talk to someone with a better background in law. I mean, I could speculate, my gut thinks it has to do with taxation or limiting consumption, but who knows. Sometimes laws are implemented at different times or evolve in away to address current needs and balance past ones, but again, I am just theorizing and that doesn't help anyone when there is no doubt a definite answer. I'd be curious to hear it, and see what other substances fall under the same regulations," the young woman shrugs her shoulders.

Vincenzo is considering Hadrian's question, only to offer up, "I shall preface my statement by saying that it is an uneducated one when it comes to matters of law and is simply a thoughtful opinion." A glance about and then he's looking back to Hadrian, And I shall provide an example to further it. One locks their doors for what reason? To keep people out. Or rather, to keep honest people out. If someone wanted to get past a lock, they are going to find a way." A lift of his glass, a small sip and then he's following it with, "Could the law on smuggling it in be taken in the same manner? It keeps the honest people honest. They aren't going to go seek a smuggled substance, just as they won't seek to bypass a locked door." A glance to Denica and he's giving a nod of his head, listening to her and then, "Well, it can't be taxed, since it's illegal to bring it in. But limiting consumption could be one way to certain consider the current law." A glance back to Katarina and there's a grin, "We most certainly do need some experts in the respective fields, it would seem."

"Oh no," Hadrian answers back at Denica's statements as a smile seems to blossom across his sharply angled features, "if you don't know? You don't know. I certainly don't know. I do agree that I'd be very interested in knowing the answers behind that. For all we know? It's a law that has persisted for the last three centuries and has just been established as precedence at this point. Simply waiting for His Majesty to revoke it at any time". Though that last part of Hadrian's statement seems to draw a smile, mischevious smile to his mouth. He nods along with both Vincenzo and Katarina, seemingly in agreement with their assessment regarding the need for subject matter experts. "But you know what? That's not how we operate every time in our fair Empirical," he begins to chuckle, "if we don't know the answer? We just continue talking about it, speculating wildly, until we reach - or don't reach - some sort of general consensus that makes sense to us. Right? Right," he says with another brief chuckle that bubbles up from his throat and over his lips.

Q-bert an Albino Possum have been dismissed.

Denica laughs at something Hadrian says and she shakes her head, "but how else might we solve the world's problems over a single bottle of wine?," she says to him, and then shrugs her shoulders. "It's interesting though, and I think you hit something. There are plenty of laws that are on the books, that may not need to be, but in the end it's about priorities, and how many hours in a day, and resources needed to go through them all, and make sure they are aligned." A beat, the young woman picks a bit of paint off her hand, "I do quite enjoy speculating wildly, but knowing the answer, is almost as good. Perhaps a take away for us, find out, and share amongst, if possible?," she wonders looking at Katarina as the host. "I know I have a few unanswered questions now, and I've enough things keeping me up at night," she says with a good-natured grin.

Katarina laughs at Hadrian's words. "Indeed, indeed. That is what unites us in the Salon: our ability to talk an issue to death and ourselves into restful sleep~." She looks to Denica, and bows her head in mock apology. "I hope that if anything keeps you awake, Princess, it is artistic inspiration~." The Valardin woman then notes: "Though with the journal I plan to write upon arriving home tonight, I think we may well have successfully planned next week's flurry of calls and responses in the Whites~."

There's a quick laugh from Vincenzo at Denica's reply and he's giving a nod of his head, "Indeed. More unanswered questions then answered ones, now, I do think." A quirk of his lips to a grin and he's gaze darts towards Hadrian, to give a nod of his head, "Couldn't agree more." He's then looking to Katarina, the grin remaining in place, "Seems like I'm going to need to seek out a lawyer to ask some of these questions, if only so that I can find an answer rather then leaving it to thoughtful opinion."

"Might I recommend my protege, Marquessa Teagan Blackram?" Katarina says to Vincenzo. "Her knowledge of the law is as full as her schedule~."

"Well this was fantastic, I cannot recall when I've had such a lively discussion, without copious amounts of wine," she says in jest, though probably not. "What a lovely group you have going, and I would love to learn more about it, and how I might attend future events such as this." The young woman smiles, "I find hearing other people's thoughts and ideas quite inspiring, and I do believe I have an idea for a piece of art to delve into later as a result."

Vincenzo dips a nod of his head in the direction of Katarna, "Then I will have to send a messenger to the Marquessa, see if she may be able to fit me into her schedule for a conversation on this matter." His gaze play back amongst those gathered, "Once I've spoken with her, would the three of you like hear the Marquessa's take on it, from a legal standpoint?"

"I may have to have a conversation with my own patron as well, just to make some inquiries about the law and the like. Of course not to try influencing some sort of change, but to satisfy my curiosity," Duke Hadrian Mazetti remarks with a casual roll of his shoulders. His smile grows once again as his attention continues to glide over the gathered individuals. Though the words of Denica earn a snap of brilliant harlequin eyes toward her and once more the Duke's smile begins to grow until it achieves appropriately devilish qualities, wide and charcoal-whitened to a glistening sheen, "Your highness? Would I be able to interest you in allow me to purchase that art that I may put it on display here in the Empirical? I would, of course, be willing to make a donation to a charity of your choosing for your troubles..."

Hadrian offers a nod toward Vincenzo regarding the question of future information provided.

Katarina's face is halfway covered by her veil, and yet she still manages to grin brightly at Denica. "You are welcome to return anytime, Princess Denica~. I am currently debating a short list of topics for future conversations -- I'm doing my best to minimize the chance of them exploding into firestorms." She glances at Hadrian: "Or we could throw caution to the wind, but if anyone starts throwing chairs, know that I will be hiding behind your legs."

Denica perks up at the interest in her art and she flashes a warm smile, "I never sell my art, though I do encourage good deeds, so a donation to charity would be suitable, but we shouldn't discuss price until I have something in my hands to show. The artistic process is," Denica shrugs, "it's own thing. I do not control it, but I'd be happy to figure out something that works for us both," she says lacking better explanations. A nod is given to Katarina and she smiles, "well, I would like to come back and discuss how and where I can help, this is what we need more of. Smart people coming together to discuss things, disagreeing but leaving with a smile on our face, think of how better the world might be," she shrugs, and then dismisses it, a bigger topic for another day.

"Well," Hadrian's head rolls back that the crown of it rests gently against the trunk of the pear tree, his eyes turning toward Katarina, "in my experience? It's less whether the Salon wishes to host a discussion that may potentially bring out very, very heated discussion. And more often whether there's someone brave enough to host it. With certain people using their overwhelming might of late to crush the smallest of dissent? One must look to the path ahead with considerable caution. There are waaaaaaaayyyyy too many insecure people in this city," he says with a simple roll of his shoulders.

Katarina purses her lips behind her veil. "Perhaps they should try haze," she muses, as the night gives way to less structured, more casual conversation.